Interview

GRÜNTUCH AND ERNST ON HEROIC PHASES, EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE AND WORKING ON DISPLAY...

When you arrived in Berlin in 1991 you had the impression that you had already missed the boat. In retrospect was that actually the case?

Almut Ernst
When things were really happening in Berlin all we could initially do was observe things from London. When we then arrived here, we felt that at this important moment in time we didn’t really have sufficient experience. Later, when we had got together a good portfolio through competitions, things here were almost on the downhill again. Nonetheless: For us, this anti-cyclical growth was a good thing because it gave us stability with regard to the structure of the studio.

Does success always have to have humble beginnings? Bill Gates pieced together his first PC in the garage, and on the first tours Deep Purple played in school gyms and slept in damp cellars. Not long after they were international stars. Did you have a heroic phase like that?

Armand Grüntuch
Well we haven’t become millionaires through our work, nor do I think we are international stars either. But we don’t work in damp cellars.
Architecture is a profession in which it is difficult to make plans. But if you go about something with passion, feelings and perseverance and acquire more and more expertise, then you do indeed get to a point where you have a sound economic base.

Almut Ernst
In 1991 and the years that followed we had something to fall back on through our jobs at the Academy of Arts: These gave us the freedom to go about things at leisure. Which meant we did small conversion jobs, compiled expert opinions and entered a lot of competitions. And when we actually won one, the School for the Mentally Retarded, that was our breakthrough.
However, given the precarious condition of the Berlin city budget it was actually nine years before the building was completed. I did sometimes think about what they would do if a young studio like ours couldn’t wait that long? Because the fee doesn’t increase the longer the project takes, on the contrary... And so we were actually very happy to survive the nine years we needed, until we had the Hackescher Markt to rely on as a visible reference of our work.

How is your studio organized? Do you have draftsmen, apprentices, secretaries?

Armand Grüntuch
We started off as a relatively small unit and have grown successively. From this we have developed a style of working in which everyone has to do everything. This sort of lean production means that all our employees have to think holistically.

Almut Ernst
I did actually think about training a draftsman. I couldn’t, because only those studios that actually draw their plans manually are allowed to do so. Studios that work exclusively with computers are not allowed to train draftsmen. Nobody gives any though to just who is going to employ them afterwards, though.

While we’re on the subject of studios that only use computers: Many studios use computers not only for drawing, the software is also used for generating shapes. What do you use them for?

Armand Grüntuch
"Studios that only use computers" is a little misleading. We draw a lot by hand, but freehand, not with a T-square. And we use models a lot. For almost every project we carry out extensive spatial studies using real, three-dimensional models. We have an extra room at the back that has something of a workshop about it and is terribly untidy. Especially when you are working with computers you constantly have to check the tactile dimensions of spatial perception using models.

Almut Ernst
The basic idea behind drawing using a computer is that you can apply various levels, which you can superimpose on each other in different ways, or even make invisible. That in turn trains you to think in a certain way and is different approach from an ink drawing done by hand, which we also came across in our early office days.

Armand Grüntuch
We try to get by with as straightforward software as possible, which means we tend not so much to use large software packages with all sorts of components, preferring instead special software for drawing, rendering and modeling. The data are then linked to each other via interfaces.

Almut Ernst
We grew along with the MiniCAD and Vector Works software solutions. As opposed to programs that stem from mechanical engineering this is a tool that has extremely simple geometric definitions.
Even when I was a student there were two distinct camps with regard to using computers: There were engineering programs that involved a lot of mathematics and scientific software, and then there were the Apple fans, for whom images and graphics were a priority. The Mac world always had a particular attraction for us.

"Anything is possible. That’s what we fought for", to quote Frei Otto in an interview you yourself conducted with him. Nowadays you can build any shape imaginable. Do we have to, just because it’s possible?

Armand Grüntuch
No, definitely not. But it was important to initiate the process, such that it is now possible to respond to different requirements in different ways. There’s no doubt that it would be ludicrous to resort to complex aesthetic geometry in an empty gap between buildings. But take the Olympic Stadium in Munich, one of the outstanding post-War constructions in Germany: If you consider the difficulties in calculating complex sets of geometry and balance of forces like these from the very outset, then the means we have at our disposal today indeed make things a whole lot easier. You know that you can calculate a shape like this and are not reliant on experimental models with soap bubbles.

Almut Ernst
You can just as well turn round the question "Do we have to build the blob?" and ask: "Do we really have to build today in the same way as we did in previous times?" Is the right angle still the only point of departure? Harmonious design in nature and an organic formal language can just as much serve as a leitbild - which is something that was looked into time and again in the work of Frei Otto, not only with regard to construction, but shape as well.

You write: "Exceptions have to become the yardstick for cities as a system." An exception that is the rule - the result would be an architectural circus but certainly not a city.

Armand Grüntuch
The question arises as to what extent and how often these exceptions reappear. Here at Hackescher Markt there is a design specification. Yet the examples that adhere closely to it are by far the worst buildings - not only in our eyes, but even in the eyes of those who made the rules.
So the rules can only be the lowest common denominator. Even if you want to achieve a certain uniformity, you always need architects who use their imagination and produce something using these rules that is more than just the lowest common denominator.
What’s more, certain situations require special answers. A theater or town hall certainly bears no resemblance to a normal building. We need exceptions like these to generate an image of cities that does justice to people.

Almut Ernst
Any rules designed to ensure the quality of a city are an important topic of discussion, but they can’t claim to be valid for decades on end. Rather, open-mindedness to urban development means that these rules need to be in a constant process of change in order to reflect the changing work and lifestyles of those affected by them.

Peter Richter said of your building at Hackescher Markt that from the conference room you can indeed see the city, but you don’t have to hear it: "Just good windows. Really nothing other than windows." Whether at Hackescher Markt or in Neumühlen in Hamburg: People working here are on display. Have they improvised at all to produce countermeasures?

Armand Grüntuch
They are not so much improvised as planned countermeasures. The façades we design have many layers. Here at Hackescher Markt there is a dual façade with an outer layer and, in between, solar screens, and an inner layer of opaque sections. Generally the façades can be opened and the solar screens and other gadgets can be set individually. The façade is also a part of the building; we try to plan gaps, spaces between rooms, atria and entrance areas - spaces that allow buildings to grow and to shrink.

Almut Ernst
And we try to design our façades in such a way that they provide those on the inside with maximum daylight and things to see. As such, as well as putting them on view, we give them a tool to create privacy, protection, concealment, i.e., to adapt to their needs. Just as we change our clothes as a matter of course, this "third skin" serves the same purpose.

What is the Grüntuch/Ernst mindset on ecological building?

Armand Grüntuch
Ecological building sees an edifice as an organism, as a complex unit made up of construction, technology and outer fabric.
For us it is second nature to use the construction as a storage mass as well. Whenever we can we also activate the components, in other words we also use concrete ceilings for heating and cooling purposes. What’s more we fit nighttime cooling systems, thereby producing a pleasant ambient temperature with relatively simple means. In the cold season winter gardens transfer warmed air into the interior. Aspects such as these have since become a matter of course - for architects at least it will become second nature to think in these terms.

Almut Ernst
However, the debate on sustainability must not only address operating energy and its technical perfection and efficiency, but also urban planning. Housing developments and infrastructures have to be consolidated in terms of surface area so that the volume of traffic on the route we use every day is reduced. That too has something to do with architecture, with town planning.

Which keywords are most important in your work?

Armand Grüntuch
People say of us that we are often surprising with the solutions we come up with. At the start of any project we invest a lot of energy in breaking down supposedly predetermined approaches and research alternative possibilities for the solution to a job.

One more question: Current circumstances are dictating that the generation of very young architects is effectively being prevented from entering the profession. What is your advice to your young colleagues?

Armand Grüntuch
If you have decided to become an architect it is a matter of the heart, a question of passion, and you shouldn’t let yourself be discouraged. You should just stick with it. Architecture also always means sticking to your guns when the going gets tough.

Almut Ernst
We regularly receive post from former interns who had no alternative but to gain experience abroad for a number of years. And although it is perhaps not always the optimal path you would choose yourself, those who come back will nonetheless at some point contribute to the enrichment of the German architectural scene.

Many thanks for the interview. All that’s left is for me to wish you every success for your designs for the German pavilion in Venice. We can’t wait to see it!

Armand Grüntuch
Neither can we...

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